An interview with ambassador Richard Zady


The African diaspora under the spotlight


The new statute of issues such as responsibility towards the home country and know-how and knowledge acquisition

by Alfonso Alfonsi and Assouman Yao Honoré

In the frame of a reflection on the diaspora phenomenon abroad, "African Societies" met the Ivory Coast Ambassador Richard Gbaka Zady in his roman office, to ask him some questions.

Kenya Scouts Association teache computer use to children. Panapress

Q. Can we talk of your personal experience as regards the diaspora?

A. By closely following the various debates here in Italy, I have been able to grasp the political and social dynamics within the sphere of democracy that guaranteed my presence in this country. I told myself that the diaspora had to become familiar with the tools of political analysis. This is not to say that everyone had to be involved in politics, buy everybody had to understand the inside mechanisms. Today, what we know can be an element of reference. I have sustained a political battle to pave the way for the birth in Cote d'Ivoire of a Directorate for Ivorians abroad, along similar lines to what has been done in Italy by setting up the Ministry for Italians abroad. We don't all have to be physically present in our country, but we must create suitable conditions to contribute to its development. There are a great many citizens who have lived abroad and these could act as a bridge. There are the scholarship students who went straight back home after graduating abroad; but there are also many who have lived in Italy, slowly getting by with hardship in society. It is the latter, and not those who have "fleetingly" experienced Europe, who can make a more important contribution to the growth process of their country, and to this end we should create a precise and responsible political will. In my modest case, I believe it is the first time that a position of responsibility has been entrusted to an exponent of institutional national politics directly from abroad, and without even giving him time to return to his homeland: a taboo has been broken.

Q. You have just given a very typical example of how diaspora members can be useful to their country, without returning to it. Can you tell us something more in this regard?

A. Many people have business activities here in Italy and carry out projects of solidarity and of socio-economic aid. There are also cultural mediators who further the knowledge of a distant reality by making people aware of why it may be useful to have international cooperation. One still has to see which forces, in the West, are acting for the good of Africa and which are acting for the good of the West in order to get them to create a third way, without any counter-positions. We have many businesspeople who have managed to gain a professional culture here. In Africa, people think time never passes because they live in a pre-industrial condition: there is still no conception of time as resource. We have to persuade everyone that we can grow only by working and producing something new.

Q. In this regard, in your opinion, what are the factors that negatively affect the African states' road to progress?

A. So far Africans have not wondered about their role in the international and universal sphere: their view is too restricted to their local dimension and a global view is lacking. Another element is the lack of solidarity between African countries.

Q. Is this mentality found in specific countries or do you think it belongs to all African states?

A. I am talking in general terms of something that stems from history, from colonialism and post-colonialism. The reference elite is still the same. If all African countries show the same deficiencies, it means that the elite has still not managed to create models that are useful for all. There is a collective project to carry on, which can then be implemented in different ways in each country without denying the freedom of each to establish an original path suitable to its particular needs.

Q. In your view, what at present are the forces of African countries that can contribute to building a better future?

A. Firstly, the production forces, since everything revolves around economic well-being. These forces belong to the primary sector, the tertiary sector and to the entrepreneurial elite residing in the towns. But even intellectual capacities are important. And here I would not only privilege the "modern" elite - that has a Western orientation and that defines as "backward" anything which has to do with tradition and culture.

Q. In this picture, what do you think of the elite's grounding?

A. Until now it has always been thought that progress could be achieved only by referring to Western values. Being able to count on an elite that has been trained in the West is certainly a positive factor that has allowed social and cultural literacy. At the same time, however, the traditional reality has been considered a hindrance and, even today, intellectuals consider traditional culture as a limit to development, in permanent opposition. The problem is then to try and find a homogeneous enough path for everyone. The most progressive wing must in some way come back to traditional society in order to boost it towards modernity, with full respect of values and without denying traditions.

Q. In effect, reflecting on the future of African countries, we often wonder whether it is necessary to keep tradition or whether it should be superseded or even abandoned. What could be the elements of an African modernity linked to tradition?

A. When I speak of modernity, I am not talking of going beyond traditional society because it

: Zwedpu "Boy Scouts on parade"University of Wisconsin- Madison Libraries.Africa Focus 2000

is already in itself modern. This is due to the biological regeneration of the generations: the concept of tradition that I may have is different from the one that my father had. The problem is of how to reshape the African tradition in a modern key. Thinking of a specific African modernity is fundamental. In my view, it is the elite who have to make a choice because it is the group most geared toward economic, cultural and social growth. Modernising means reshaping the elements of culture. We think of rural and farming society as the "traditional society". But the farmer who buys a radio and then perhaps listens to a news bulletin talking of the visit of the head of state in France will wonder where this geographical place is and will consequently get informed. Today, I see a dynamic society that consumes commodities and watches television. There is no television programme for the elite in the towns and a different one for the rural communities. Very often, the traditional reality moves into the towns: farmers go to visit their sons and thus get to know urban life. That is why I talk in terms of an ever-moving reality. Even in large towns there are still core elements safeguarding tradition. There is thus a great overlap. Indeed, in the big cities we find a reconstituting of the associations of the villages of origin on the part of the elite, with the "leaders" meeting to decide how the village must be run. This case, too, provides for an exchange with rural people in a continuous give and take between the two components. What is called for is the mutual respect and awareness of the potential of both groups.

Q. One item on the agenda is the technological gap, the so-called "digital divide". Does this technological apartheid really exist, in your opinion?

A. Yes, this technological apartheid exists, but not because there is a will to keep Africa out. Everything depends on the time taken to prepare the current generation of intellectuals. Now there is the need for a training policy, supported by African governments, allowing us to receive new technologies. If we don't have the financial means or technological potential, then trying to build something with weak instruments means widening the existing gap. What is thus required is an acceleration towards a technological reality, which we must also be able to handle. Today, even those who live in the villages need a telephone, internet and television.

Ellington John "Crowd at Stadium Kinshasa for football (soccer) match.University of Wisconsin- Madison Libraries.Africa Focus 2000

Q. Are there any centres in Côte d'Ivoire that are already experimenting with technological innovation and with other research fields?

A. Yes. We have a Higher Institute for Technological Training that trains technical personnel to a very high standard. Moreover, there are many scientific faculties which devote particular attention to research; for example, the medicine faculty as regards AIDS. We believe that this is the right direction, but it is essential that an African graduating from a Western university, on returning to Africa, finds the same infrastructures in order to make full use of his knowledge and to become a nodal element of a new identity and of research for progress.

Q. In your view, how should one act to contrast the isolation of the African continent?

A. Today, solidarity must provide for the valorisation of human resources. The problem is not so much one of raw materials or space. Having raw materials does not mean being equipped to make full use of them and properly handling them. If there were to be a Marshall Plan for Africa today, we wouldn't be sure of having the right people available to make the most of this investment. That is why the education issue is crucial in order to overcome the isolation.

Q. Many researchers consider the institutions to be the real problem for Africa's future. The issue is dealt with on three levels: reforms, stability and relations between institutional leaders and local chiefs. What are your views on this?

A. I think the question of institutions is crucial. You cannot have efficient or leading institutions without rebuilding or giving identity to the modern state. However, ethnic groups at times seem to be more important than the state. The traditional local chief, who is the heir of an ethnic group, actually feels more important that the head of state. I therefore believe that stability is an element to be sought in order to allow all the political and cultural forces to express themselves. What I mean is that the figure of a traditional chief cannot be done away with because it is a point of reference - a leader that has a role as cultural mediator. If anything, this figure should be reformed, and indeed changes must allow for the various ethnic, cultural and religious identities. We should be aware of who the protagonists are of this new dimension of our modern states.

Q. Many speak of a generational change in the leadership of various African countries. In other words, there is a widespread view of a new leadership. What are the characteristics of these new leaders?

A. In my opinion, the new leadership is very "humble" and does not refer to the great issues

of Panafricanism or to an overall view of a pure, clean and unspoiled Africa. It is an elite that aims to go ahead with serenity, questioning itself on its own identity and own potential. It is aware of the limits of its strengths and knows it has found elements in modern culture in order to be able to reflect upon itself. But, in order to reshape an African identity, the elite must take account of an Africa that is a protagonist in international competition and no longer of a country that needs aid. Before asking for aid, we must know what we can do and what kind of help we need. Today there is talk of immigration and of multicultural societies: there is a very positive approach, and we can to some extent take advantage of a certain favourable disposition towards us for a more productive debate. The leadership must have realism, with no inferiority complex. It must not have a mentality looking to the past but must be aware of and geared to a modern Africa: it must be prepared and have a thorough knowledge of Western realities.

Q. You mentioned the issue of ethnic groups. There is currently a debate, involving anthropologists and sociologists, on the role of ethnic groups in African countries. In India there is talk of the "Clast System", that is, of a class-caste system. We wonder whether there is a "Clet System" in Africa, that is to say, a system where class and ethnicity interweave. What do you think?

A. I think that debates on Africa should not be the monopoly of Africans and that a certain

Young, M. Crawford "Students in front of Social Science Building, Unaza-Lubumbashi Campus". University of Wisconsin- Madison Libraries.Africa Focus 2000

openness is needed. Ethnic groups represent the most significant sociological reality in Africa. Indeed, these groups contain the social classes. There is a middle-class group, a proletarian group, in fact, all the divisions possible are included, but what is fundamental is the ethnic solidarity, which emerges when attempts are made to take power. In a democratic election, a candidate is chosen on the basis of his ethnic group and not because he represents certain interests. There are the modern, cultured elites and also the local elites of traditional society. When there is a village council under a tree, not everyone has the right to speak because speaking in public presupposes a detailed understanding of the communicative pedagogy within the community concerned. In my view, the relationship between ethnic groups and social classes is a fundamental aspect that must be studied scientifically because all the efforts of the pro-Western modern elite would be in vain in the face of obstacles of cultural interpretation. This could be the common basis for an African and European research. The new leadership must be aware of what ethnicity means today. One of our problems in this regard is the simultaneous feeling of belonging to one ethnic group and the contempt for all the others, considered to be "inferior". This does not allow for any information exchange, let alone cooperation. And yet, today, the salvation of African ethnic groups depends on their mutual acceptance and on the study of possible common guidelines for the future. The problem becomes all the more difficult because there is insufficient awareness of the existence of a modern state. The sense of ethnic belonging prevails over the central state and this leads to conflict. In any debate, the ethnic aspect always prevails.

Q. As a user of international media, how would you define the image of Africa conveyed by the mass media?

A. The image of Africa that is conveyed today is puerile. There is a sort of search for a "lost paradise", for how we were and how our ancestors were. This is due to the fact that information has become a business and because the public wants a certain kind of communication. Although a great many documentaries have been made on Africa, there is still no real debate on our continent's potential. This holds for the Western or international media. But Africa also has means of communication and even these do not devote much space to the Western reality: they only limit themselves to giving important news items on international politics. In other words, we don't speak about you and you do not speak about us. Not even African journalists make an effort to convey new realities. The lack of information on the society, customs and traditions of Westerners is a great limiting factor: when our press, or even our anthropologists, finally do decide to write about the West, then we'll probably get a very intense exchange.

Richard Gbaka Zady, Ambassador of the Ivory Coast

(V.S.)

"A telecom worker in the Ivory Coast" Africaphotos.com

Young, M. Crawford "Students in front of Social Science Building, Unaza-Lubumbashi Campus". University of Wisconsin- Madison Libraries.Africa Focus 2000